Raskolnikov comes to Sonya, they read the parable of Lazarus' resurrection. He promises to tell her who killed Lizaveta. But someone else is eavesdropping on all of this...
My main struggle with Dostoevsky is that his way of thinking is so fundamentally alien to my own. Last entry you told us to read this as a morality tale rather than a psychological investigation, and I'm TRYING to—with varying results.
I definitely appreciate what it means to choose Sonya to deliver the Gospel, especially in that time period. My heart bleeds for her, for having to deal with Raskolnikov on top of everything else. Can you imagine, having to become a parent to your own parents and siblings? Having to sell yourself in order for them not to starve? I'm so angry that she lives in a world that told her she's a sinner and not a victim. I'm so angry that everyone has failed her on such a spectacular level and religion is the only thing stopping her from plunging into desperation. There is something fundamentally wrong in a society where the poorest can either pray or go insane, where there's no help other than God's. (Which is not to say that religion is bad, although I'm not religious myself I do respect people who can find meaning in it. I'm glad Sonya has it and Rodion will have it at some point.)
Still the fact remains that she and her family will probably starve or die of consumption or end up in the streets, and while Rodion goes about it the wrong way (he chooses violence instead of being kind, to her and to others), he is not lying. He has a knack to go beyond social conventions and tell uncomfortable truths out loud. And he is so lonely, so desperate to find kinship in a world that treats him like an alien. Poor Sonya is the only person who doesn't act selfishly around him, did you notice? All the others are telling him that the way he acts upsets them, Sonya can see how truly sad he is and genuinely wants to help. She shouldn't have to, though.
Sonya's situation always distresses me. An 18-year-old girl was pushed into prostitution without being shown alternatives. She could have become a servant or an assistant, but Katerina Ivanovna, in her arrogance, made this choice. It's not even about her children; she doesn't work at all. Now, society disregards the reasons for Sonya's situation, viewing her as just another fallen, depraved prostitute. It's bitter. No one cares that becoming a prostitute is so easy due to enormous demand. Yet, this is considered normal. Visiting prostitutes is seen as noble, while being one is terrible. Alas, patriarchy in all its glory.
I don't think everyone behaves selfishly. Raskolnikov, however, behaves terribly as a brother, friend, and son. Razumikhin, his mother, and Dunya truly love him; they only asked him to explain his strange behavior. Yet he continued to act callously, disregarding their feelings. As for Sonya, he doesn't know her, so it would be odd if she complained about his behavior. Though she should—he treats her terribly too. But the likes of Luzhin-Svidrigailov: yes, they are selfish.
Religion saved Dostoevsky, or at least preserved his sanity and soul during and after his hard labor. Before that, his texts lacked religiosity, unlike his works from 1860 onward. For Sonya, as for Dostoevsky himself, stories from the New Testament are helpful. I, too, have a complex relationship with religion. While I'm fascinated by studying its traditions and rituals, I don't personally practice any faith. In this regard, I can relate to your perspective.
I started writing a rambly reply about society, guilt, mental illness and alienation and then realized I wasn't making much sense, I don't want to be emotional about this although I CLEARLY have many, many emotions. And I don't want to take over the discussion and impose my views either, but with your permission Dana after we finish reading I'll write an essay about it, I have so much to say and I want it to come out the right way.
These topics are all so emotionally charged that it's impossible to talk about them dispassionately. Of course, I'd be happy to read your essay. If you need any help, let me know.
Oct 4·edited Oct 4Liked by Dana • Dostoevsky Bookclub
May I suggest that when we read (and love) classical literature, we should remember that living in 21 century, we shouldn't judge the literary works of 19c. by our modern standards. And this novel is not only about people whom thanks to Dostoevsky's genius we accept as alive but about Dostoevsky's ideas and one of them to contrast Napoleon's idea that everything is permitted by Raskolnikov's killing the three people. And he is not selfish or terrible to his his relatives or friend. He is in the extreme situation, that's why his behavior so unusual. Dostoevsky puts Sonia also in the extreme situation and made her a savior. Novel is the conception of polar ideas of the writer, and you shouldn't take it so personally, I think.
Oct 4·edited Oct 4Liked by Dana • Dostoevsky Bookclub
Thank you, Dana! I came out on Dostoevsky Bookclub accidentally and was so glad that besides W&P club a lot of people also are interested in Dostoevsky. And it gives me the opportunity to reread the novel.
Thank you. Dostoevsky's works can be read and reread endlessly. I'm delighted that our small club has inspired you to revisit his writings. The perennial Tolstoy-Dostoevsky comparison was bound to lead you to Dostoevsky as well. Tolstoy regarded Dostoevsky as a pivotal figure in his life—someone who held answers to his questions about religion. Tolstoy's greatest regret was never meeting Dostoevsky, despite having had the opportunity to do so.
I have just finished reading this chapter and the comments. What an overwhelming chapter, so much to absorb. I will certainly read it all a couple more times. Thank you Dana for another so enlightening essay, and to fellow readers for their comments; there's much I would have missed without this help-along.
I'll just comment that this chapter also worked for me, as have others, as a critique, in the manner of Dickins, of the hideous circumstances in which so much of the population lived. And beyond that, without any direct reference, made me think about the political and social regimes which impoverished so many, and are so evident in War and Peace. Democracy has never looked so good - "the worst of systems, except for all the others."
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this chapter. Your observation about the chapter serving as a critique of the dire living conditions, similar to Dickens' approach, is astute. Dostoevsky was indeed known for his social commentary, often highlighting the plight of the poor and marginalized in society. The novel does make us consider various political systems and their impact on society. Yeah: the worst of system, except for all others. 😅
It seems he won't leave her alone. Come to think of it, he "fell in love" with her just from her father's words, without even seeing her once. One would have to be mad to become obsessed with someone they've never even seen.
Raskolnikov’s chastising Sonya was uncomfortable to read. His words should have been directed to himself. He is the one who has killed himself. But he is correct about the children.
It feels like Sonya and Dunya might symbolically be the Martha and Mary on the Lazarus story.
Yes, Dunya and Sonya probably embody them. And reading how Rodion interacts with poor Sonya, how he attacks her, saying that it would be better for her to die than to live like this: it's all painful to read. And Raskolnikov really should say this to himself, and maybe he is voicing it to himself. But the meaning of this hasn't reached him yet
Oh my goodness!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a chapter! I want to go back and reread it at least two more times. There is SO MUCH in there. I’m not even sure where to begin. First, your article was outstanding. (I’m going to reread that a couple times as well.)
Any chapter that introduces a new room with peeling yellow wallpaper is always going to be a winner in my book. This time, the wallpaper has actually turned black in all the corners, mirroring Rodion’s soul.
I was fascinated by the splintered way that Roskolnikov views Sonya. He sees that she is living a life of depravity, and yet, to himself, he notes that she “still retains her purity of spirit.” He wonders if she will finally succumb to the darkness of the life she lives and kill herself. The one thing keeping her from suicide is her “consciousness of sin.” This instantly reminded me of Hamlet’s “To Be or Not To Be” soliloquy…one of my all-time favorite sections of Shakespeare:
“To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them…
…To die, to sleep;
To sleep, perchance to dream—ay, there's the rub:
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause—there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life…
…Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovere'd country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
***Thus conscience doth make cowards of us all,
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry
And lose the name of action.”***
Sorry that’s so long. I tried to reduce it a bit, but it hurt.
“Thus conscience doth make cowards of us all…”.
__________
The reading of the story of Lazarus…
There are so many thoughts swirling around my mind. I think perhaps what struck me the most was the juxtaposition of Christ and Mary to Sonya and Roskolnikov. Sonya reads the passage in which Mary falls at Christ’s feet, weeping, and just moments later, Sonya finds herself in Christ’s position with Roskolnikov kissing her feet, saying he can’t live without her! What?!? How scandalous! A prostitute taking the same position as Christ?!? I can’t believe that made it past the editors during FD’s rewrite of the chapter. Oh! How I wish we still had that version to read!
“You’ve committed moral suicide, you’ve wrecked a life…YOUR OWN.” Wow. What a line. How many people have done this through the years…
Thanks again for a wonderful exposition of the chapter! Is there an English version of Dostoevsky’s notes in the Scriptures he carried with him? I would LOVE to “pick his brain” about what he saw during those four years immersed in them.
Thank you for such an insightful comment. You've noticed many fascinating details.
It's striking how they all seem to have the same wallpaper 😅 Both in Raskolnikov's room and at the old woman's. Could the yellow color be driving them all mad?
I'm convinced that Hamlet's monologue didn't come to mind by chance. Though my recollection of Shakespeare isn't perfect for catching every allusion, Dostoevsky made an unmistakable reference to the monologue's opening in chapter 1.4.
“He must make up his mind, decide on something, anything—or else… ‘Or else give up my life altogether!’ he suddenly cried out in a frenzy. ‘Meekly submit to my fate, as it is now, once and for all, and stifle all that’s in me, and give up any right to act, or live, or love!”
If there are indeed more lines from Hamlet's monologue embedded here, that's intriguing. It's likely possible to delve deeper into the Shakespeare connection. In Hamlet's world, human salvation seems hopeless. Everything appears more tragic there.
While Raskolnikov's world is far from positive, hope still seems to flicker. Though I might be mistaken about this interpretation.
---
I agree about this inverted world and the scene with kissing the foot. But perhaps it's not an inverted scene, but rather a continuation of the chain. The harlot kisses Jesus' feet, and the murderer kisses the harlot's. It's as if he's trying to connect with Christ "through an intermediary". But it's interesting that this scene was allowed. Generally, the censors weren't bothered by deaths, suicides, and other unpleasant details, but a harlot reading the Bible - that's a nightmare for them 😅
---
I have never seen Dostoevsky's annotations in the Gospel translated into any language. It's so specialized that few people are interested. Essentially, it's just the text of the Gospel from the mid-19th century, with pencil underlines and folded pages. Dostoevsky didn't add anything of his own there.
My main struggle with Dostoevsky is that his way of thinking is so fundamentally alien to my own. Last entry you told us to read this as a morality tale rather than a psychological investigation, and I'm TRYING to—with varying results.
I definitely appreciate what it means to choose Sonya to deliver the Gospel, especially in that time period. My heart bleeds for her, for having to deal with Raskolnikov on top of everything else. Can you imagine, having to become a parent to your own parents and siblings? Having to sell yourself in order for them not to starve? I'm so angry that she lives in a world that told her she's a sinner and not a victim. I'm so angry that everyone has failed her on such a spectacular level and religion is the only thing stopping her from plunging into desperation. There is something fundamentally wrong in a society where the poorest can either pray or go insane, where there's no help other than God's. (Which is not to say that religion is bad, although I'm not religious myself I do respect people who can find meaning in it. I'm glad Sonya has it and Rodion will have it at some point.)
Still the fact remains that she and her family will probably starve or die of consumption or end up in the streets, and while Rodion goes about it the wrong way (he chooses violence instead of being kind, to her and to others), he is not lying. He has a knack to go beyond social conventions and tell uncomfortable truths out loud. And he is so lonely, so desperate to find kinship in a world that treats him like an alien. Poor Sonya is the only person who doesn't act selfishly around him, did you notice? All the others are telling him that the way he acts upsets them, Sonya can see how truly sad he is and genuinely wants to help. She shouldn't have to, though.
Sonya's situation always distresses me. An 18-year-old girl was pushed into prostitution without being shown alternatives. She could have become a servant or an assistant, but Katerina Ivanovna, in her arrogance, made this choice. It's not even about her children; she doesn't work at all. Now, society disregards the reasons for Sonya's situation, viewing her as just another fallen, depraved prostitute. It's bitter. No one cares that becoming a prostitute is so easy due to enormous demand. Yet, this is considered normal. Visiting prostitutes is seen as noble, while being one is terrible. Alas, patriarchy in all its glory.
I don't think everyone behaves selfishly. Raskolnikov, however, behaves terribly as a brother, friend, and son. Razumikhin, his mother, and Dunya truly love him; they only asked him to explain his strange behavior. Yet he continued to act callously, disregarding their feelings. As for Sonya, he doesn't know her, so it would be odd if she complained about his behavior. Though she should—he treats her terribly too. But the likes of Luzhin-Svidrigailov: yes, they are selfish.
Religion saved Dostoevsky, or at least preserved his sanity and soul during and after his hard labor. Before that, his texts lacked religiosity, unlike his works from 1860 onward. For Sonya, as for Dostoevsky himself, stories from the New Testament are helpful. I, too, have a complex relationship with religion. While I'm fascinated by studying its traditions and rituals, I don't personally practice any faith. In this regard, I can relate to your perspective.
I started writing a rambly reply about society, guilt, mental illness and alienation and then realized I wasn't making much sense, I don't want to be emotional about this although I CLEARLY have many, many emotions. And I don't want to take over the discussion and impose my views either, but with your permission Dana after we finish reading I'll write an essay about it, I have so much to say and I want it to come out the right way.
These topics are all so emotionally charged that it's impossible to talk about them dispassionately. Of course, I'd be happy to read your essay. If you need any help, let me know.
May I suggest that when we read (and love) classical literature, we should remember that living in 21 century, we shouldn't judge the literary works of 19c. by our modern standards. And this novel is not only about people whom thanks to Dostoevsky's genius we accept as alive but about Dostoevsky's ideas and one of them to contrast Napoleon's idea that everything is permitted by Raskolnikov's killing the three people. And he is not selfish or terrible to his his relatives or friend. He is in the extreme situation, that's why his behavior so unusual. Dostoevsky puts Sonia also in the extreme situation and made her a savior. Novel is the conception of polar ideas of the writer, and you shouldn't take it so personally, I think.
Thank you, Dana! I came out on Dostoevsky Bookclub accidentally and was so glad that besides W&P club a lot of people also are interested in Dostoevsky. And it gives me the opportunity to reread the novel.
Thank you. Dostoevsky's works can be read and reread endlessly. I'm delighted that our small club has inspired you to revisit his writings. The perennial Tolstoy-Dostoevsky comparison was bound to lead you to Dostoevsky as well. Tolstoy regarded Dostoevsky as a pivotal figure in his life—someone who held answers to his questions about religion. Tolstoy's greatest regret was never meeting Dostoevsky, despite having had the opportunity to do so.
I have just finished reading this chapter and the comments. What an overwhelming chapter, so much to absorb. I will certainly read it all a couple more times. Thank you Dana for another so enlightening essay, and to fellow readers for their comments; there's much I would have missed without this help-along.
I'll just comment that this chapter also worked for me, as have others, as a critique, in the manner of Dickins, of the hideous circumstances in which so much of the population lived. And beyond that, without any direct reference, made me think about the political and social regimes which impoverished so many, and are so evident in War and Peace. Democracy has never looked so good - "the worst of systems, except for all the others."
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this chapter. Your observation about the chapter serving as a critique of the dire living conditions, similar to Dickens' approach, is astute. Dostoevsky was indeed known for his social commentary, often highlighting the plight of the poor and marginalized in society. The novel does make us consider various political systems and their impact on society. Yeah: the worst of system, except for all others. 😅
A very rich chapter indeed, but I mostly just wanted to shout at Roskilnikov “stay away from her you creep!”
It seems he won't leave her alone. Come to think of it, he "fell in love" with her just from her father's words, without even seeing her once. One would have to be mad to become obsessed with someone they've never even seen.
Raskolnikov’s chastising Sonya was uncomfortable to read. His words should have been directed to himself. He is the one who has killed himself. But he is correct about the children.
It feels like Sonya and Dunya might symbolically be the Martha and Mary on the Lazarus story.
Yes, Dunya and Sonya probably embody them. And reading how Rodion interacts with poor Sonya, how he attacks her, saying that it would be better for her to die than to live like this: it's all painful to read. And Raskolnikov really should say this to himself, and maybe he is voicing it to himself. But the meaning of this hasn't reached him yet
Oh my goodness!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a chapter! I want to go back and reread it at least two more times. There is SO MUCH in there. I’m not even sure where to begin. First, your article was outstanding. (I’m going to reread that a couple times as well.)
Any chapter that introduces a new room with peeling yellow wallpaper is always going to be a winner in my book. This time, the wallpaper has actually turned black in all the corners, mirroring Rodion’s soul.
I was fascinated by the splintered way that Roskolnikov views Sonya. He sees that she is living a life of depravity, and yet, to himself, he notes that she “still retains her purity of spirit.” He wonders if she will finally succumb to the darkness of the life she lives and kill herself. The one thing keeping her from suicide is her “consciousness of sin.” This instantly reminded me of Hamlet’s “To Be or Not To Be” soliloquy…one of my all-time favorite sections of Shakespeare:
“To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them…
…To die, to sleep;
To sleep, perchance to dream—ay, there's the rub:
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause—there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life…
…Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovere'd country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
***Thus conscience doth make cowards of us all,
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry
And lose the name of action.”***
Sorry that’s so long. I tried to reduce it a bit, but it hurt.
“Thus conscience doth make cowards of us all…”.
__________
The reading of the story of Lazarus…
There are so many thoughts swirling around my mind. I think perhaps what struck me the most was the juxtaposition of Christ and Mary to Sonya and Roskolnikov. Sonya reads the passage in which Mary falls at Christ’s feet, weeping, and just moments later, Sonya finds herself in Christ’s position with Roskolnikov kissing her feet, saying he can’t live without her! What?!? How scandalous! A prostitute taking the same position as Christ?!? I can’t believe that made it past the editors during FD’s rewrite of the chapter. Oh! How I wish we still had that version to read!
“You’ve committed moral suicide, you’ve wrecked a life…YOUR OWN.” Wow. What a line. How many people have done this through the years…
Thanks again for a wonderful exposition of the chapter! Is there an English version of Dostoevsky’s notes in the Scriptures he carried with him? I would LOVE to “pick his brain” about what he saw during those four years immersed in them.
Yes, this was an amazing chapter. I waited to read it until after Dana posted her essay. I find I am more attentive to details if I do that.
Thank you for such an insightful comment. You've noticed many fascinating details.
It's striking how they all seem to have the same wallpaper 😅 Both in Raskolnikov's room and at the old woman's. Could the yellow color be driving them all mad?
I'm convinced that Hamlet's monologue didn't come to mind by chance. Though my recollection of Shakespeare isn't perfect for catching every allusion, Dostoevsky made an unmistakable reference to the monologue's opening in chapter 1.4.
“He must make up his mind, decide on something, anything—or else… ‘Or else give up my life altogether!’ he suddenly cried out in a frenzy. ‘Meekly submit to my fate, as it is now, once and for all, and stifle all that’s in me, and give up any right to act, or live, or love!”
If there are indeed more lines from Hamlet's monologue embedded here, that's intriguing. It's likely possible to delve deeper into the Shakespeare connection. In Hamlet's world, human salvation seems hopeless. Everything appears more tragic there.
While Raskolnikov's world is far from positive, hope still seems to flicker. Though I might be mistaken about this interpretation.
---
I agree about this inverted world and the scene with kissing the foot. But perhaps it's not an inverted scene, but rather a continuation of the chain. The harlot kisses Jesus' feet, and the murderer kisses the harlot's. It's as if he's trying to connect with Christ "through an intermediary". But it's interesting that this scene was allowed. Generally, the censors weren't bothered by deaths, suicides, and other unpleasant details, but a harlot reading the Bible - that's a nightmare for them 😅
---
I have never seen Dostoevsky's annotations in the Gospel translated into any language. It's so specialized that few people are interested. Essentially, it's just the text of the Gospel from the mid-19th century, with pencil underlines and folded pages. Dostoevsky didn't add anything of his own there.